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KRON 4 News at 8

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San Francisco 8, Oakland 5, Kron 4, Kansas City 4, Us 3, Tempur-pedic 3, San Rafael 3, Dublin 3, Berkeley 3, Kevin Hogan 2, Rosa 2, Stanley Roberts 2, Robin Winston 2, Jeff Bush 2, Oakland Raiders 2, Mudslides 2, Kentucky 2, Downtown Oakland 2, Wisconsin 2, Petaluma 2,
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  KRON    KRON 4 News at 8    News  News/Business.  

    December 1, 2012
    8:00 - 9:00pm PST  

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finally, this dog can really move. ♪[ music ] >> call him conga dog. watch as flupi the chihuahua shakes his tail in perfect rhythm. he's dancing for his supper, hoping to score a plate of thanksgiving leftovers. >> (male announcer) live from the kron 4 news station, this is the kron 4 news.
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>> storm three hitting the bay today... and it's cause for concern as rivers are filled to the brim and hillsides soggy from earlier downpours. we continue tracking the rains as storms continue to roll in over the bay area. here's a live look at the bay bridge where an wind advisory was issued because of storm conditions. delayed almost two hours at the sanf rancisco i'm here at the weather center with robin winston... a triple whammy. wow. >> 280, palo alto is getting moderate rain. out of the east bay, also moderate through dublin, 580,/680. san rafael is coming your way on light for the north bay. a few patches in the weather system between the
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san rafael. we will continue to see rainfall as we go towards it this evening. this is the third system of the week. this is still alive look. this is not the core. it is to the north. this is still however, a live look. widespread. a quick look at rainfall totals it just in the last 24 hours. in the north bay, just under 2 in.. one half inch pan san francisco, traces and dublin. and oakland, also not that much but this system is just as strong as the last one. we will see scattered showers with the high wind advisory in place for the bay bridge. the high wind advisory starting at 10:00 p.m. the heaviest rainfall and corn will be tomorrow morning court wednesday. the good news is that-quarter will be tomorrow but a decrease in showers for the latter part
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of said it will not be that bad. we will time it out on futurecast. i will let you know what we can expect. when we can get a break. >> we are going to jeff bush. you say that residents are looking at a rapidly rising river? >> let me put this into perspective take a look behind me. this is the parking lot behind johnson's speech. 2 mi. from downtown and the water is already risen. the parking lot and set to about 2 ft. or that grassy area is toward a normal river level is nearly 50 ft.. so it has risen nearly 100 ft.. let me show you video from earlier the russian resort is swollen. in some portions of it is up to the tree
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branches. you can see how fast it is moving toward local save said that there has been some improvements to the river banks but also mother nature can be unforgiving. historically, usually a flawed and gur nvilee. when it gets to 6- 1/7 feet it begins to get scary. you have to think about leaving town and turning off the electricity. shutting off the gas tanks. >> this will iraq can get flooded, this entire road, this entire -- area. hi >> oh my gosh! vim yes >> we are not expecting the river to rise all the way to town. however, mother nature can be unpredictable and the locals are talking tough they are still concerned. this is the cult of the
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town. jeff bush, live in gurnville. >> with heavy rainfall, water hazards like this near miller avenue that is flooded out. businesses bunker, down with water flooding roadways. this brought in more than just a few bit of rainfall. >> this is nuts. when people aboard the puddles and they will go to elaine did they do not belong to your >> id is hazards like this one, this one, this one at that cruise are ready to resolve. and our major concern is between a 10:00 p.m. tonight-10:00 a.m. >> jerry stewart is with the marin county public works is that more storms and more problems are on the way toward >> we are in them when winter wonderland of water. >> there are workers on call
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all night long. ready to focus on trees and down. >> that will be our major focus think about it it could take out a utility pole. that is a major concern. >> they're urging you to call in anything but the best bet is to not leave the house. >> stay home. i should not really say that if you do not have to be out and about after hours? it might not be a bad idea to snuggle and. >> if you are out, more rainfall, and a lot of rainfall is on the way. >> i do not necessarily like anything about it but and but we need it. >> working crews want you to stay safe in mill valley. >> this rain, wind with the trees cobbling down phillipe djegal is live in san francisco. and how can we avoid being a victim sleep? >> indeed, the key. the most important thing is to maintain your trees are
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round you. make sure that the tories are round you are richer in the pruned. if for some reason, the crooned- trees are starting to lean? call a special is, and delete. >> all of the green and white is at the top of the tree the naked branches. that means that the weight of the tree, where the wind is stronger there's nothing down below so it is just going to likely break off. >> a certified arborist. these and dangers out. all walking tour pacific heights in san francisco. >> if you have an occasion, ficus tree, or a really large moderate cyprus, acacia. those are also hazard is and typically week and break. >> oakland says all of those trees are commonly found in the city despite that like is that is not been planted because they are weak. the ficus. -- i would have this removed. completely and one of a strong central trunk.
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>> also keep a strong look for included are >> there is a tight crotch. anything that is under 45 degrees across. with the bridges, from the main trunk that is a dangerous scenario. it has included park and the attachment is weak. >> occasionally wet soil is okay. but if you live and in every with the soil is always drenched that could be a problem record wet soil will prevent oxygen for the routes and it could wrought the roots. >> it could cause the tree to fall over. robbing the- roots. >> no good can come from a good tree. if their roots -- become rotted with not enough oxygen and. of waterlog sorrell. >> this complete ruins of a public building. the landmark that was neglected for years has
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>> six dozen firefighters battled the blaze of the old pool house. san francisco police the partner responded a rug 1:00 p.m. and tried it for hours to get it under control. >> it is going to be burning for some time because it is up in the void spaces. it difficult to access we will be on the scene for quite some time could >> the fire chief's saying that heavy smoke and it went from all directions and they had to tackle the flames from the outside. >> we are not going to go interior to fight this fire is too low to high of a risk. i do not want risk firefighters for this. >> the world's largest heated saltwater pool was once a beautiful a san francisco landmark but has been appended for years. >> it is been around for a long time it as and -- abandoned. it >> they believe that it was empty. we will have to get
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into the building some hall and searched the building. >> neighbors were shocked as smoke filled the air and spread across the sunset neighborhood. >> my neighborhood i saw a bunch of smoke and going by there is a ton of smoke. >> the fire chief that the cause and of the origin of the fire are still under investigation. one firefighter was transported to hospital for evaluation. ocean beach, alecia reed, kron 4 news. >> 1000 people in berkeley are at risk of the identity theft of an ambulance service, details of coming up.
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in berkeley, nine-hundred people who needed ambulance service could be victims of identity theft. city of to an employee at a florida- based company which processes bills for berkeley's ambulance services. no medical information was taken. but officials say customers have been advised to closely monitor their credit reports for at least the next year. world aids day. coming up..
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you won't take my life. you won't take our future. aids affects us all. even babies. chevron is working to stop mother-to-child transmission. our employees and their families are part of the fight. and we're winning. at chevron nigeria, we haven't had a reported case in 12 years. aids is strong. aids is strong. but we are stronger. and aids... ♪ aids is going to lose. aids is going to lose. ♪
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san jose police are investigating the 43rd homicide this year... last night, police responded to reports of a shooting on pacific avenue... they arrived and found
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a 17-year-old boy had been shot -- he was pronounced dead at the scene. this is san jose's 16th gang-related homicide this year. the suspects fled the scene before police arrived. san francisco police found a body of a man on a muni platform this morning. the man was found dead on third at mission streets. authorities say the cause of death has not been determined. >> the core of the system to the north of office is still showing a lot of precipitation. with more widespread tonight and into tomorrow. keeping the rain gear and umbrellas and handy. a live look and what is a bit closer toward a lot of the dry in petaluma but on the south golden gate, san rafael, san francisco, san mateo, moderate rainfall. moderate weather cells with over 580, 680, livermore just a taste of what we're going to get tomorrow to what we can expect. the heaviest rainfall will be sunday morning, when it becomes more widespread. anywhere from 1 in.-6 in., gusting winds, the high wind
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advisories are run 10:00 p.m. we could have flooding, mudslides, downed trees and a very aggressive system. mudslides. it will not stick around all day a lot of rain but it will work its way out of the bay area by late tomorrow evening. futurecast. midnight. light/moderate in the north bay. however, by 5:00 a.m. on sunday morning, just some scattered showers. as we advance the clock, moderate from san jose, to the san jose mountains and most of that rainfall will be to the north bay mountains and the south bay. santa cruz, big sur, mountain areas as we advance the clock. 12, not so bad. clearing through petaluma, santa rosa, and the front of the system by noon is already in san jose. it is not going to stick around all day. we will
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basically be left with a lot of cloud coverage if you have evening plans? you should be fine, what dry evening and a monday morning decent commute. here is a look at your your kron 4 7 day around the bay lingering on monday that will be the first dry day we will get a break but not for very long. that next system tuesday, wednesday, with another chance of showers and a little bit of a break of birthday. just in time for the chance of rainfall on saturday with a-break of the rainfall. with highs in the 60s. >> didn't know that over 1 million people are living with hiv. one people and five to not know that they are in fact, get tested. know your status. >> today is world aids day and singer janet jackson's message for her fans was know your status! the grammy award winner is an ambassador for a-m-f- a-r which is the foundation for aids research.. the white house observed
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world aids day by displaying a large red ribbon on the north portico. the red ribbon is an international symbol of support for and awareness of the disease. around 50-thousand americans are infected with h-i-v -- the virus that causes aids -- every year. and more than a million people in the u-s are living with the disease. secretary of state hillary clinton unveiled a new document in the global fight against h-i-v and aids. >> science and evidence must continue to guide our work. for all or part the united states will reach support research, innovation, with approaches that staff of opportunistic infections like tuberculosis we will have a clear measurable benchmarks and measure our progress towards them so we could focus for funding on what works. >> secretary of state saying
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that hiv could be a part of a future but the disease that causes does not have to be. this will be a road map for in a to-free generation. since 2004, the emergency plan for each relief has created a $30 billion. and other news, mexico has a new president. and regain and regai-- enrique pena... as part of the revolutionary party that once ruled the country for 30 years. they clashed with the crowds and it was a tight race. with a just a narrow victory. >> egypt's new constitution is in the hand of mohammad morsi.. tooling expectations on both sides it should go to the referendum. it will
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mark and other spread it towards a democracy but the recent seizure of absolute power has put the country interim oil toward however, this speech that was nationally televised senate this is a break in the democratic experience. >> north korea will watch and launch a missile towards space. the communist based culture happens analyzed its mistakes from its previous lunch. outside think that it is a long range missile. they say that this is a serious provocation and is warning that it could have a " strong response ". >> ford is recalling 2013 ford escape, for fusion because of a fire hazard. there has been reports of overheating and fires with the 1.6 l ego boost system.
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it is working on a way to fix that system but ford is asking for owners to contact the dealer as soon as possible. they will a range a loaner vehicle at no charge. >> coming up, these high donation bends. to find cover this money goes. in the next edition of these donations bins.....
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>> (male announcer): now, here's stanley roberts who found people behaving badly. blog. this is not difficult to find these collection bins. they would believe that your donating things for charity. >> how are you are donating because that is what is on the box. and yes, they will word is used words like to donate but it says for profit. and the interesting thing is that they do not even know how they got here. they say that they shared with the salvation army, and the selling it to the thrift stores. taking the issues and sold them in africa for one nickel per pair. >> if this looks familiar? been here for a while. these are right outside of a rite aid have been out for four years. and this out of an auto repair shop showed up and the owner wanted to go away. this one behind here. >> nobody said anything, it just appeared.
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>> i called it could well.good will and " out of the closed'...and asked if they get their donations from these bins..>> what do you do? providing that it is bolted to the ground >> these are being dropped off and if nobody complains they will stay put and there's nobody to turn to. and in fact i called every phone number and every one i got a recording to leave a message. with the exception of one it was a local nonprofit. >> community assistance for retarded and handicapped we've been around for 40 years. we have been servicing individuals with intellectual and develop base. >> and i asked how do these for-profit impacter charity. >> having a multitude of boxes that are placed out there more than likely illegitimately has put a huge dent and what we are able to do. >> these for-profit seem to be hurting local charities but also libraries. and some of your donations are being sold to third world countries. not all of donation bins are created equal and we all need to read the fine print before we donate. in castro
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valley, stanley roberts, kron 4. >> this murder-suicide with the kansas city chiefs linebacker. and this charter bus with this deadly crash at the airport and graffiti is turning into artwork. downtown oakland at an art gallery. [ male announcer ] this december, remember --
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you can stay in and share something... ♪ ♪ ...or you can get out there with your friends and actually share something. ♪
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the lexus december to remember sales event is on, offering some of our best values of the year. this is the pursuit of perfection. a deadly shooting rocks an n-f-l team. we'll have the latest details in what police are calling a murder suicide involving a kansas city chiefs linebacker. then... a wrong turn for a charter bus leads to a deadly crash at the airport. plus.. in downtown oakland.. graffiti turns into artwork. we'll show you how
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spray cans are being put to good use at one art gallery. a tragic morning for the kansas city chiefs as they mourn the loss of one of their players. police are still investigating what lead linebacker jovan belcker to kill his girlfriend just minutes before taking his own life. george howell has the details we are learning now that police have identified the girlfriend of jovan belcher as 22-year-old kasandra perkins. the two had been living in their kansas city home with their three-month- old baby girl and belcher's mother. >> we can confirm that there was an incident at arrowhead earlier. we are cooperating with the authorities in the investigation. they said that the all four seasons for his the chiefs and the currier high of 120 catfish tackles. they are going to
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play against the panthers the child is being. looked after by family members as police continue to look for a possible motive in the shootings. in response to this tragic event the oakland raiders released the following statement this morning... the oakland raiders are empathizing with the chiefs organization. our hearts are wounded by such an unimaginable tragedy in our nfl family. we will continue to pray for everyone involved. coming up later in this newscast... we'll find out which team the stanford cardinal will face off against in the 2013 rose bowl. that story and more coming up later in sports. >> the sugar bowl ski resort at donner summit may be getting a fresh layer of snow... but they won't be
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open this weekend for skiers to enjoy it. this weekend's storm is keeping the resort closed until next weekend. officials have reported more than 30 inches of snowfall since storms area. sugar bowl will reopen on december 8th. .. and now a weather update from robin winston... hit the bay area! >> that is correct, this is a live look outside. as vicki mentioned, this is the third system to hit the bay area. spread south. this is still a quarter to the north. expecting wind-6 in. with flooding and keeping a close eye other rivers, the napa river, the russian river, let us show you on stormtracker 4. this moderate weather cell over milpitas, highway 680. on the peninsula, it is wet. all the way to sunnyvale is wet in the east bay, concord, walnut creek, san
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ramon, light/moderate. south of highway no. 4, brentwood. and also north, of richmond, san rafael, it will continue to be widespread but moderate rainfall tonight and tomorrow. rainfall totals in the past 24 hours. there was one system that moved out and this third system the combination of totals in the last 24 hours. the north bay sought about 2 in. in st. helena. just one- tenth of 1 in. in dublin. and oakland, just a little bit over three tenths of 1 in. but there is more on the way. scattered showers and a high wind advisory by 10:00 p.m. the heaviest rainfall will be late tonight and early tomorrow. it is going to be windy but the good news is that there will be a decrease in showers. more of
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the flash flood warning and what we can expect on that sunday. when the dry conditions will return. >> there is one east bay community against one east bay community is taking action against taggers who deface public property. as kron four's jeff the best street artists in those tags with beautiful images. >> when fifteenth street between webster and franklin in downtown oakland was the target of spray can taggers art gallery owner jaime galinda and his friends in the art community came together to attack the problem with street art. >> i'm an artist, my friends are artists, my wife's an artist, let's beautify the neighborhood through art, paint over the tagging and graffiti that makes it look horrible and replace it with beautiful vibrant art. >> i'm really happy what we did out here on this block but i wanted to take it a step further. >> while the art collective gave the street a whimsical sense of innocence galinda wanted to demonstrate that true graffiti art that comes from the street.
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transcends the crude vandalism the neighborhood suffered from. >> crayone did the dragon, he did the face, here in this corner is blaze aka picasso, this wall was done by nate one, this corner here and the character was done by east three and craze one, and then we have the buddha done by mike bam tws. >> galinda enlisted six of some of the most accomplished street artists in the bay area to produce street art in his fifteenth street gallery for an exhibition that will demonstrate that works of art can be created with a spray can. >> what i do per se is not the vandal on the street what i do is art work with the spray can, that a huge diffierence between me and the average tagger. >> the artists assembled for the exhibition which opens on december 7th all have decades of experience in perfecting their art and have had both exhibitions and commissions to produce their work. >> i would consider myself
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an artist with roots in graffiti arts, i started in 1987 and after more than twenty five years i'm still doing it. i started doing gallery shows and started getting paid commissions from corporations and local businesses and here i am after thirty years it's been a long ride. >> the artists challenged themselves in designing the exhibit. >> we're going to paint and try to push the boundaries of what typical graffiti art is and what we did was limit our color palette to just black, white and red. >> proceeds from the exhibition will help support the art collective's efforts to continue to create street murals. >> we want other neighborhoods to see what we're doing and duplicate that. because together we can make a difference. >> in oakland jeff pierce kron >> the exhibit opens at the love oakland gallery on december 7th. >> in national news... two people were killed in a bus crash after the driver smashed into a concrete overpass at the miami international airport . officials say the double decker was carrying a group jehovah witnesses. passengers say the bus
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was heading to a church convention in west palm beach. police say most of the passengers were elderly, including the two men that died. tonight -- three people remain in critical condition. >> this train derailment spewed hazardous material with one out of people in back with a one to clear the chemicals in the air that can make people dizzy and sleepy. >> government officials in india will pave the family's $2,500 to the families of those that died and 600 of the $2,500 will pay for the injured. it killed 112 people and it is linked to american companies, gap, wal-mart,
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disney parks are. three workers. some of those workers have been a ruste arrested.... accused of blocking the building and not allowing them to escape the fire. we will be back. music's, ready ! share the harmony... she'll be here soon ! she'll love this ! share a sweeter welcome... hey, hola, cómo estás ? hello, hey everyone.
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es un pla-cer co-no-cer-te. encantada. share everything. this holiday get verizon's share everything plan. unlimited talk, text and shareable data... ... across your family's devices, all in one plan. get a droid razr m by motorola for $49.99.
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here are the 4 stations remote which will close... fire station number 4 on hawthorne drive in walnut()* *reveal/vicki * )á fire station number 11 on center avenue in
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clayton. fire station number 12 on shell avenue in martinez... and fire station number 16 on los arabis avenue in lafayette. the closures come after voters in the contra costa fire district .... rejected measure q.. it would have provided a temporary, seven- year parcel tax to fund the stations. the stations were volume... and how close they are to other stations. ever imagined making a meal at home... just like they do in fine restaurants? coming up on dine and dish - we put on an apron like a professional chef. >> this powerful storm how long it will stick around, coming up. sleep train has your ticket to tempur-pedic. experience the pressure-relieving comfort of tempur-pedic, and sleep risk-free with sleep train's
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100-day money back guarantee. get 36 months interest-free financing: no down, and no interest for 3 years. plus, get free same-day delivery. sleep train's 100-day money back guarantee, interest-free financing, and free delivery? that's the ticket! sleep train's ticket to tempur-pedic is on now. ♪ sleep train ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪
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>> we will see light /moderate rain for the bay area and scattered showers in the osth bay, dunbarton and also san francisco, getting light showers. as i mentioned, heavier rainfall for tonight/tomorrow. the wind will also pick up with a flash flood watch with the oversaturation. this is the third storm of the week with one-6 in. of rain fall. on top of what we have already had with wrap rising of the rivers, the napa river, the russian river, we will keep a close eye with rapid rise in the guard claude storm drains. we will keep that close eye with
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storm warnings and flash flood warnings in effect. what should we expect? the heaviest will be in the morning, early. be prepared. the rain gear, right next to the door because it is one to be a wet sunday morning. wind-6 in. and windy. there is a high wind advisory by 10:00 p.m. flooding, mudslides, downed trees, downed power lines and please keep that in mind if you are traveling. futurecast, a tiny it out. we will be sitting over the north bay. timing it out flooding is a major concern is not until after midnight tonight that will slowly see that front move for the rest of the bay area. even by 5:00 p.m., that moderate rainfall is north of the golden gate. scattered showers for the rest of the bay area as we continue on going to be getting whatdy
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a sunday morning. santa rosa, all the way to the south by and all the way to the santa cruz mountains. the good news is that you will get a lot of rainfall but is quick moving toward 12:00 on sunday, if you have north bay plans just a little but a cloud coverage. the label, towards the east bay, just light rain the front of this system, by noon is just all the way to the south. it is moving quickly. that means that you of the afternoon plans? it will not be ruined by the recall. with just a lot of cloud coverage as we advance the clock is gone. just in time for your monday morning commute if your work week. that is a little bit of good news. the high temperatures tomorrow, 60s. it is not going to be that warm and let us take a look it your extended forecast finally getting a break on monday. however, there is another system and the next chance will be tuesday, wednesday, and partly cloudy conditions. third, friday, with another system on the wake of rainfall on/off
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prada rest of the week. >> dying and >> if you are like me? -- today on " dine andoff dish''' le sur chef ... >> you are going to be impressed with your skills. >> let's go. >> let's go. first, we will boil water. vegetables, pasta, tonight we're making holiday tapas.. spanish food you would be proud to serve your guests. a brief lesson on how to use sharp kitchen knives and saute some shallots, onions, shrimp, chorizo, the tasting is important of course. and
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it is a lesson on indoor barbecue and a demonstration of how to play to food. and instantly. >> it was done. a bill of perfect. >> let us dig in. >> the cumin, omens, green beans with the shrimp kabobs. >> and just a little bit of candle light. >> and a glass of wine and you have your own restaurant. >> to find out more about cooking class's. and you can get a copy of these recipes. go to our website www.kron4.com and click on " dine and dish ". and police in kentucky make a shocking discovery during a find out what was in the trunk of this car... coming up after the break. >> in other news i am giving away high end headphones. and over $300! this is a quiet noise cancellation
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latest actechnology to bring a comfortable listening environment with height ambient outdoor noise. a microphone, cable, music, code 2 www.kron4.com " enter to win. good luck gabe slate tech report ñgñg
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yesterday the stanford cardinal beat the u-c-l-a bruins to win the pac- twelve championship and move
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on to play in the rose bowl. the cardinal won the game behind a strong performance by quarterback kevin hogan and running back stepfan taylor... the final score was 27-to-24. kevin hogan threw for 155 yards and a touchdown while adding another 47 yards and another touchdown on the ground. next stop for the cardinal is the rose bowl which will be held on january first. the rose bowl will feature a match up between stanford and the winner of the big-ten championship game... wisconsin. wisconsin beat nebraska today to earn their spot in the rose bowl. the golden state warriors are looking to continue their solid start to the season tonight against the indiana pacers. right now it's part way through the third quarter and the warriors are winning 41-to-38. the warriors are nine- and-six on the season and are currently sitting in first place in the division. this is the best start for the team since the 2005 51-44 season.
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the warriors haven't made the playoffs since 2007... that was the year that the eighth place 'we believe' team beat the first place dallas mavericks in one of the biggest upsets in n-b-a history. kentucky police have just released a video of officers finding a kidnapped store clerk in a car trunk on august fourth. >> () the kidnapping suspects beat up a convenience store clerk then threw him the trunk of his car and took off. three hours later the police discovered that 22- year-old shawn bloemer was tied up and trapped in the vehicle. three suspects were arrested. weeks later bloemer got to meet the officers who saved his life when they were honored for their work. >> in what appeared to be a routine traffic stop in oklahoma quickly led to a wide spread man hunt. after pulling over and talking to the driver of this red s-u-v the officer puts in a call for immigration control. when he does the car door flings open and one by one the fourteen passengers of the vehicle start escaping. after a few hours all but one of the suspects were rounded up.
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the driver is facing thirteen counts of human trafficking and the rest of the passengers are facing deportation. police in san diego are searching for two suspects who stole hundreds of pairs of underwear from victoria secret. the security camera inside the store caught the whole thing on tape. watch as the two suspects linger at the display for a few seconds before unloading armfuls of underwear into a bag. the suspect with the bag then leaves the store while the other suspect remains behind for a few seconds before leaving. the store employees didn't even realize they had been robbed until they noticed they were missing half their display. >> this is soaked it has been foggy. this is a live look at the bay bridge toll plaza. it also has been slowing down traffic with
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light/moderate rainfall but the core of the system to the north. it will become more widespread tonight. the good news is that you have plans for tomorrow it could taper off. getting outside, to enjoy the latter portion of your evening. monday will be dry and a break from the rainfall but another system on the way. >> the soil is going to need a break. and we do. [laughter] we will see you back at 11:00 p.m. (music) look at you guys with your fancy-schmancy u-verse high speed internet. you know, in my day you couldn't just start streaming six ways to sunday. you'd get knocked off. and sometimes, it took a minute to download a song. that's sixty seconds, for crying out loud. we know how long a minute is!
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